Saturday, December 1, 2007

To Hey Song or not to Hey Song

Before I go into the debate on the Hey Song, here it is in two forms:

National Championship Celebration:

After 2007 Georgetown game:

Tonight the Hey Song was done twice during the second half of the Tulane game. First with nine minutes left after I think a Jonny Flynn three in the corner. During the timeout that immediately ensued, the student section did the Hey Song under the direction of Otto's Army President Darryl Patteson. About three minutes left, the student section does it again, I can't really remember what happened before that, that prompted us, I think it was a Devendorf three. There were some students that did not approve of the Hey Song either time. Against UMASS with 17:41 after the Jonny Flynn no look to Donte Green dunk, the Hey Song was imminent. The students down in the floor seats didn't approve and it never happened. Syracuse went on to lose the game. So the debate exists: To Hey Song or not to Hey Song.

To Hey Song: Tonight the student section wasn't really going again partly due to a pretty boring game and probably because the team was coming off a loss. The Hey Song with nine minutes left really got the students going for about two minutes until the technical fouls got whoever wasn't into the game into the game. After the Hey Song, students were pounding the benches and chairs for the first time during Tulane offensive possessions. The UMASS game had a weak student section again, and probably would have been energized with the Hey Song. From that timeout on, UMASS slowly got back into the game and then finally put S.U. to bed late. In football the Hey Song is done after every touchdown when Syracuse has the lead. The Hey Song was done twice in the Rutger's game before the Scarlet Knights even scored, and look how that game turned out, but no one complained we were doing it then.

To Not Hey Song (The reasons I could come up with why someone against the Hey Song. If there are more post a comment.) : The student section shouldn't be doing a cheer which signifies that the game is over until the game is out of hand. There was nine minutes left against Tulane and 17 against UMASS. That is a lot of time for bad stuff to happen. The Hey Song should be reserved for big games.

To Hey Song: Name the most well known student section. Most will say Duke, and most will say they hate them because they are cocky. The Hey Song makes you look cocky and that's what you want. You want the opponent coming in knowing the student section hates you, despises you. Last time I checked, you don't want the rivals coming in saying, "jeez that student section likes to cheer, but they aren't cocky, they don't act like there is no doubt their team is going to win the game."

To Not Hey Song: It was said that the Hey Song makes Syracuse look cocky, and make S.U. look really bad if Syracuse was to lose the game. You don't want to cheer too obnoxiously when you are losing or have the chance to lose because that will also make you look bad should you lose.

To Hey Song: When your team is losing, you need to cheer harder and louder to encourage them. Now you wouldn't Hey Song when losing, but the student section should get as loud as possible during the game.

I'm for the Hey Song and tried to give all the reasons I could think of or heard already why someone would be against the Hey Song. I'm sure there are probably more for both sides. So what are your thoughts?


Anonymous said...

Look, the problem with the 'Hey' Song during the game tonight was that we were playing Tulane. No offense to the Green Wave, but this is a team with losses to New Orleans and Buffalo this year. Last I checked, we were Syracuse, the 5th-winningest program in college basketball history.

The 'Hey' song is a great thing, and it definitely pumps up the crowd, but it's special. Its use after the Georgetown game last year was perfectly justified: we were the only team to beat the Hoyas in a three-month stretch, and the Hoyas are our traditional rivals.

So here's a guideline for 'Hey' song use: Up 15 against UConn with 2 mins left: the 'Hey' song should not only be sung, but screamed. Up 12 to Tulane with 10 mins left, or up 25 to East Tennessee State with 5 mins left, or even up 5 to St. John's with a minute left: it shouldn't even be an option. We're Syracuse, for Christ's sake. Let's act like we've been there before.

Carrie said...

Fully agree with anonymous. The "Hey" song should be a little bit special. Singing it while up against Tulane with 9 minutes left seems a bit like rushing the court after St. Joes. We wouldn't have done the latter, why would we do the former? Save the “Hey” song for when it means something.

PS. the president of Otto's Army needs to STFU. Someone doesn't agree with him and he decides to attempt to ruin the mood for everyone for the rest of the game? Excuse me; I didn't know he was the only one there whose opinion counted.

Anonymous said...

A couple things...
In your argument, you put fault on the student section for our loss to UMass. I hardly think I had anything to do with Syracuse allowing 107 points. Even if the student section had attempted to raise the energy level, I think it would have been more proactive to cheer FOR our team to rally as opposed to whinily BOOING the other team for beating our asses.


"they don't act like there is no doubt their win is going to win the game"

there has to be another way to write this example so it makes more sense.

Jameson Fleming said...

Sorry second anon. with the typo, that first win was suppose to be team. It's fixed now.

I agree the Hey Song is a special thing, and should be used in special circumstances, but when the student section is completely dead. There was hardly ANYONE cheering last night against Tulane. The Hey Song got people going, and it got really loud following that. That's my defense for using it in that situation.

As for bashing the President. He cheers louder and starts cheers more than probably almost everyone in that student section. There is no way he ruins in that mood unless you go to the games thinking you can sit in that student section in not cheer.

Against UMASS, I don't put as fault for losing that game, but the crowd plays a roll in winning games, hence teams usually have better records at home than on the road. The student section wasn't in the game, and frankly there was a lot of negative things that came out of that student section during the game. The team wants to be supported not yelled at which is something we could have accomplished with the Hey Song.

OrangeGirl2010 said...

I appreciate his starting cheers and I understand that the student section would be a less fun without him 99% of the time. And normally I like him. But if you think that he wasn't ruining the mood last night, you must not have been sitting very close to him because after the front row said they didn't think the "Hey" song should be done again, he spent the rest of the game telling people (sarcastically) not to cheer because we might lose. And, I'm sorry, but that's just him killing the mood because he didn't get his way. And it's not the first time it's happened.

I do agree that there has been a significant drop off in student involvement since Thanksgiving. I don't know if it has more to do with the team having lost in NYC or more to do with how busy and tired people are this time of year, but every cheer and chant seems to die nearly before it starts. Something needs to be done about that, obviously, but I don't think that singing the "Hey" song at random moments is the way to do it.

Jameson Fleming said...

Thank you everyone for the input so far. Hopefully Darryl, others, myself, and whoever else can get together and figure something out regarding the Hey Song and other issues.

Lisa said...

In agreement with Jameson (just this once :), I'd like to thank you all for making your opinions known. For those of us who are active members of Otto's Army, it makes it much easier for us to act for the betterment of the student section if we know how you all feel about certain issues.

Not to pour salt in your wounds James-on, but I have just a few more points to add to those that have already been made.

Firstly, the Hey Cheer was created in 2003 as a victory cheer on our road to the national championship. To use it as a rally cheer to motivate a lethargic audience just doesn't seem to give justice to its roots.

As a second and very valuable point, the Hey Cheer is a banned cheer in the Carrier Dome. It has gotten us into a lot of trouble with ESPN and Dome officials in the past because of its offensive language. This ban has not been regulated because of the moderation in which we choose to use it. Those of us who do not support the regular use of they Hey Cheer are thereby trying to preserve its presence in the dome for generations to come. Assuming the continuance of its regular use, I do not doubt that Dome officials will be asked to stop the cheer or even go as far as ejecting those who choose to start it. As much as I love it, it's a hell of a lot more offensive than a "Cantor Smells" sign and we know what the Dome does with those...

In addition, we often seem to forget that Otto's Army aims to better relationships with the local community and sports world. As much as I would like the Hey Cheer to be the first words out of my child's mouth, Syracuse residents with smaller children don't particularly like this cheer. No surprise there. The sports broadcasting community also has issues with it as it acts as a potential liability to them due to the offensive language; although I'm sure many would prefer it to Janet Jackson's boobies :0

What I found most shocking about the Hey Cheer on Saturday night was the lack of unity among the active members of our organization. As not only a member of Otto's Army but also a friend to both Darryl and yourself, I was really surprised that you would continue the Hey Cheer when an entire front row full of active members had asked you to stop. Without trying to communicate with us to see how we felt, you did the Hey Cheer again. Until now, this organization has never been a three ring circus led by a single ring master. In order for us to do what is right for the student section and local Syracuse community, it is important that we take into consideration the opinions of those around us: active/non-actives, locals, dome officials etc. It is because of them that we remain influential enough to stride forward for our student section.

Again, thank you to those who have given us valuable input. Please feel free to come to any of us and make your voice heard. We are always looking for great ideas and ways to improve.

As always...GO ORANGE!

Anonymous said...

You really need to be careful with what you say on this blog. I showed this quote to somebody unreleated to the student section floor seats - "Against UMASS with 17:41 after the Jonny Flynn no look to Donte Green dunk, the Hey Song was imminent. The students down in the floor seats didn't approve and it never happened. Syracuse went on to lose the game." He laughed and was like "so he's pinning the lose on the kids down in front rather than our defense?" I know you didn't intend for it to come out that way, but you should really be careful because nobody can read your mind.

Also, "Wow what a disaster. Every aspect of that game went wrong. Defense...Offense...Crowd...the relationship between students and players." This quote makes it appear that there was more than just the one student who had the altercation with the player. It also includes you as well. Once again I know that wasn't your goal, but thats the way you came across. I'm only posting because, as a student, you have now grouped me as part of the bad relationship between the students and team when in fact I had nothing to do with it. Don't make claims that aren't true, whether you mean them or not. I suggest you look over your posts a little more careful in the future.

Jameson Fleming said...

I will stand firm on my stance, that a lack of support for the team from not just the student section, but the entire crowd was a part in losing that game. Home court advantage is a real thing in my mind, and that's something we as fan didn't create. The second half the crowd was dead. I'll agree, the crowd isn't the sole reason they lost that game, in fact it's probably only a small fraction.

As for the student relationship thing, it may have only been one student that stood out, but during that second half, very negative things were being yelled from the student section all game. I may have only talked about that one student, but the crowd was getting on that team the entire second half. Yes the relationship between the students and the team is great, but for that second half it was not. Every easy UMASS basket, came screams of play defense, get back, and at times there were some boos.

So yes, maybe I could have worded those a little better. I do not think the quote about the 17:41 remaining would be taken so literally. I did not think people would think that I was solely blaming the student section for the loss.

Lisa, thank you for your input. I came into this University with a different grasp of what the Hey Song was than the upper classmen. I came in with the idea that when you have a chance to put a team down, any team, this is what the student section does.

Lisa said...

If there was a student section Bill of Rights (aside from the Otto's Army constitution), your right to heckle would be directly under your right to enjoy a good game. I would never want to take that away from any fan. In my personal opinion, the Hey Song has always been a victory song for the team and student section rather than a world class heckle. Let's face it, "hey, you suck" isn't the most innovative way to insult a rival team...

If you consider yourself a decent heckler and are up for the job, we could really use a few researchers to make heckle cards to hand out to the student section. Making a slam surrounding knowledge that a player's mom's cat Bubbles died of mange or that he used to wet the bed when he was little is a great way to get in an opposing player's head. I dare say even more effective than the Hey Song. I believe we had some success with it in previous years so rally the troops and make it happen.

Let's be peaceful said...

Lisa agreed, about both Hey Song and Bill of Rights.

The history of the Hey Song is important to remember and no one wants it to die. It is just when it is used needs to be adapted from when it has been done this year, that's all.

We as fans must not just respect ourselves but the requests of the community, the University, and,yes I dare say it, the major TV networks (they bring in a lot of money for our team and help keep people from around the country following the program which can help when SU get in when to the Tourney when March roles around).

No one should ever believe that the students caused the team to lose. We can help by being loud. Though for years has been hard to get upper sections to be loud as they treat games as social events but should still try. Being loud can help the team have some confidence and maybe scare or throw the other teams off their games.

I support doing the Hey Song at the proper times, at the appropriate games but it is never something that should be done twice. (If it is then that means it shouldn't have been the first time as it was too early).

I wish all a Happy Holidays and if you are still a college student good luck with the rest of your semester.

Josh from Cuse Country said...

The "you suck" version of the song has been banned at several schools because of the profanity. There was a big controversy at UMD a couple years ago. I'm no longer a university student but now that Otto's Army is in existence as a recognized entity (whatever the official capacity is) I think a much better plan would be to come up with unique cheers and songs, something that not every school does, things that could be uniquely identified with SU. That would be HUGE. Part of the reason the Duke BB fans are well-known is that they come up with their own material -- often specific to the opponent. It would make all us SU fans proud if the student started doing something similar, showing creativity and independence rather than just following the herd.

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